Re: Traditional palette vs. modern 560 by Steve Sauer on 05/21/01 at 8:37 PM
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern

In Reply to: Re: Traditional palette vs. modern posted by Ed on 05/21/01 at 5:53 PM:

Monet's painting "La Japonaise" (spelling?) was done with Vermilion and it hasn't turned black.

There are many very old paintings whose copper greens have turned brown but which have clear bright red Vermilion all over them.

Vermilion's reputation can be explained by the following:

#1. Very often adulterated, both historically and today. The most common adulterant is red lead, which turns black quickly. Other adulterants are analine dyes and other fugitive red pigments. Buying a pure supply of mercuric sulfide avoids this problem.

#2. Rarely, but sometimes, confused with Mercuric iodide scarlet, which turns black very quickly. This pigment was once sold as "Scarlet Lake," and it was also added to Vermilion.

#3. Impure sources of Vermilion may contain a greal deal of free sulphur or other sulphides which catalyze a reaction in the Vermilion to black. Pure sources should not exhibit this problem. Buy Vermilion from a Chemical supplier and grind your own paint. That way, you don't have to worry about red lead, organic additives, or impure sources.

#4. American Vermilion was not mercuric sulfide at all.

#5. There are two different types of Vermilion, French Vermilion (wet process) and Chinese Vermilion (dry process). It has been said that the dry process Vermilion is more permanent because it has fewer impurities. But, buying the pigment in pure form from a chemical supplier basically negates this point's relevance.

#6. Impurities (free sulfur and other sulfides) may react with lead white and turn the Vermilion and/or lead white black. Buying a pure supply of mercuric sulfide avoids this problem.

Naphol colors, which you mention as alternatives, have plenty of their own problems. They don't hold up well when mixed with white, for example. I mixed some Naphol pink (Permalba Floral Pink which is Naphol plus zinc white) and mixed it with lead white as part of a color chart and the square of color which was the Pink mixed with white faded away in just a few weeks (3 or 4). The pure application of the pink (unmixed with white by me) remained pink, but the color coming out of the tube exhibited the tell-tale signs of a fugitive organic pigment. Quite a bit of the pigment had already turned from pink to an oily salmon-tinted yellow. Rhodamine, a fugitive organic pigment sold by Bellini to "replace" Cobalt Violet, also shows this behavior. The paint around the cap of an old tube I was given turned a transparent oily fluorescent pink, although the color that came out of the tube was similar to Cobalt Violet Light.

The point of all this is that organic pigments often have their own set of problems and many of them are not excellent replacements for traditional pigments.


Follow Ups:

Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Ed   Posted at: 05/22/01 (9)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Steve Sauer   Posted at: 05/22/01 (8)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Ed   Posted at: 05/23/01 (4)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Steve Sauer   Posted at: 05/26/01 (3)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Ed   Posted at: 05/26/01 (2)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Steve Sauer   Posted at: 05/27/01 (1)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Ed   Posted at: 05/28/01 (0)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Steve Sauer   Posted at: 05/22/01 (2)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Ed   Posted at: 05/23/01 (1)
Re: Traditional palette vs. modern Steve Sauer   Posted at: 05/26/01 (0)

Post a Followup 545,548,555,560"> Steve Sauer"> sds_sd.comRe: Traditional palette vs. modern_05/21/01 at 8:37 PM"> "Re: Traditional palette vs. modern"
: Monet's painting "La Japonaise" (spelling?) was done with Vermilion and it hasn't turned black. : There are many very old paintings whose copper greens have turned brown but which have clear bright red Vermilion all over them. : Vermilion's reputation can be explained by the following#1. Very often adulterated, both historically and today. The most common adulterant is red lead, which turns black quickly. Other adulterants are analine dyes and other fugitive red pigments. Buying a pure supply of mercuric sulfide avoids this problem. : #2. Rarely, but sometimes, confused with Mercuric iodide scarlet, which turns black very quickly. This pigment was once sold as "Scarlet Lake," and it was also added to Vermilion. : #3. Impure sources of Vermilion may contain a greal deal of free sulphur or other sulphides which catalyze a reaction in the Vermilion to black. Pure sources should not exhibit this problem. Buy Vermilion from a Chemical supplier and grind your own paint. That way, you don't have to worry about red lead, organic additives, or impure sources. : #4. American Vermilion was not mercuric sulfide at all. : #5. There are two different types of Vermilion, French Vermilion (wet process) and Chinese Vermilion (dry process). It has been said that the dry process Vermilion is more permanent because it has fewer impurities. But, buying the pigment in pure form from a chemical supplier basically negates this point's relevance. : #6. Impurities (free sulfur and other sulfides) may react with lead white and turn the Vermilion and/or lead white black. Buying a pure supply of mercuric sulfide avoids this problem. : Naphol colors, which you mention as alternatives, have plenty of their own problems. They don't hold up well when mixed with white, for example. I mixed some Naphol pink (Permalba Floral Pink which is Naphol plus zinc white) and mixed it with lead white as part of a color chart and the square of color which was the Pink mixed with white faded away in just a few weeks (3 or 4). The pure application of the pink (unmixed with white by me) remained pink, but the color coming out of the tube exhibited the tell-tale signs of a fugitive organic pigment. Quite a bit of the pigment had already turned from pink to an oily salmon-tinted yellow. Rhodamine, a fugitive organic pigment sold by Bellini to "replace" Cobalt Violet, also shows this behavior. The paint around the cap of an old tube I was given turned a transparent oily fluorescent pink, although the color that came out of the tube was similar to Cobalt Violet Light. : The point of all this is that organic pigments often have their own set of problems and many of them are not excellent replacements for traditional pigments.

 
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