Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada

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Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada

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38 by Steve Sauer on 05/16/01 at 7:58 PM
Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada

In Reply to: Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada posted by shawn on 05/16/01 at 8:10 AM:

"basic lead pigment, vermilion, orpiment/realger/emerald green"

I've been looking for a good source of Emerald Green myself. I've been using Robert Doak Vermilion. His is the "French" orange-ish variety as opposed to the cold Chinese dry-process type. I've been looking for a source of the cold Chinese Vermilion to use in addition to Doak's warm Vermilion.

I've done extensive research on Emerald Green, and I've concluded that it is actually a good pigment if used properly, but only if it is manufactured well. I've encountered numerous sources who say that it will blacken quickly if you get a poor-quality batch. I certainly don't want my green in paintings to turn black or brown! However, Van Gogh's paintings have retained their green (almost all his green was Emerald) just fine.

I've also read many reports that Emerald Green can't be mixed with Lead colors, including the chromates, and that it can't be mixed with organic colors (Eric Hongisto), and that it can't be mixed with sulfur colors like Vermilion and Cadmiums. This makes it a rather difficult color to work with. All copper greens really should be varnished. I've read that using a varnish medium makes Emerald Green more reliable.

This makes me wonder why Van Gogh's Emerald Green has stayed green... He certainly didn't follow many rules. He painted far too thickly, for example. I think this pigment got a bad reputation simply because the grade of pigment can vary from source to source. Impurities also blacken Vermilion, for example.

I don't want to mess with dry pigments. I'd like to find pre-made paint right now.

Orpiment is a color that is even more difficult to use, since it "out-gases." It gives off fumes which will blacken lead colors (and possibly others). It should be varnished and not mixed with most other colors.

Realgar is largely useless, since it turns into yellow para-realgar when light hits it.

I'm not interested in Emerald Green because it's toxic. I want a to use it because it's gorgeous. It's far prettier than the Phalo imitations.

I'm very disappointed with Holbein. Their labeling is clearly a lie since it does not list cadmium pigments in the Vermilion. Perhaps I bought an old batch made before they started mixing in cadmium?

Doak's whites are excellent. I like his regular Flake/Zinc white the best. I'm not keen on his mica whites, though. He doesn't offer a 100% pure flake white, though. However, almost everyone says that 100% pure flake white is hard to work with and generally to warm in comparison with Flake/Zinc mixtures. The downside of Flake/Zinc is that it's weaker because of the zinc.

Grumbacher's Flake White is rather brownish because they grind it with linseed oil. This is the white to use if you paint thickly, though. I suppose. Because, linseed cracks less than the non-yellowing oils almost every other makers uses with whites. W&N uses safflower, which has an uncertain reputation.

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Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada shawn Posted at: 06/21/01 (0)

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28,34,35,36,38"> Steve Sauer"> stevesauer_hotmail.comRe: WTB: real vermilion to Canada_05/16/01 at 7:58 PM"> "Re: WTB: real vermilion to Canada"

: "basic lead pigment, vermilion, orpiment/realger/emerald green" : I've been looking for a good source of Emerald Green myself. I've been using Robert Doak Vermilion. His is the "French" orange-ish variety as opposed to the cold Chinese dry-process type. I've been looking for a source of the cold Chinese Vermilion to use in addition to Doak's warm Vermilion. : I've done extensive research on Emerald Green, and I've concluded that it is actually a good pigment if used properly, but only if it is manufactured well. I've encountered numerous sources who say that it will blacken quickly if you get a poor-quality batch. I certainly don't want my green in paintings to turn black or brown! However, Van Gogh's paintings have retained their green (almost all his green was Emerald) just fine. : I've also read many reports that Emerald Green can't be mixed with Lead colors, including the chromates, and that it can't be mixed with organic colors (Eric Hongisto), and that it can't be mixed with sulfur colors like Vermilion and Cadmiums. This makes it a rather difficult color to work with. All copper greens really should be varnished. I've read that using a varnish medium makes Emerald Green more reliable. : This makes me wonder why Van Gogh's Emerald Green has stayed green... He certainly didn't follow many rules. He painted far too thickly, for example. I think this pigment got a bad reputation simply because the grade of pigment can vary from source to source. Impurities also blacken Vermilion, for example. : I don't want to mess with dry pigments. I'd like to find pre-made paint right now. : Orpiment is a color that is even more difficult to use, since it "out-gases." It gives off fumes which will blacken lead colors (and possibly others). It should be varnished and not mixed with most other colors. : Realgar is largely useless, since it turns into yellow para-realgar when light hits it. : I'm not interested in Emerald Green because it's toxic. I want a to use it because it's gorgeous. It's far prettier than the Phalo imitations. : I'm very disappointed with Holbein. Their labeling is clearly a lie since it does not list cadmium pigments in the Vermilion. Perhaps I bought an old batch made before they started mixing in cadmium? : Doak's whites are excellent. I like his regular Flake/Zinc white the best. I'm not keen on his mica whites, though. He doesn't offer a 100% pure flake white, though. However, almost everyone says that 100% pure flake white is hard to work with and generally to warm in comparison with Flake/Zinc mixtures. The downside of Flake/Zinc is that it's weaker because of the zinc. : Grumbacher's Flake White is rather brownish because they grind it with linseed oil. This is the white to use if you paint thickly, though. I suppose. Because, linseed cracks less than the non-yellowing oils almost every other makers uses with whites. W&N uses safflower, which has an uncertain reputation.
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